Between Two Turbines
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Between Two Turbines
Leading from the Ground Up - Stan Weeks
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Between Two Turbines — #10 | Stan Weeks
In this episode of Between Two Turbines, Stan Weeks, SVP, CHRO, and President of Power Contracting & Consulting at NAES, joins host Josh Tate to discuss the leadership principles that have shaped his career across engineering, operations, human resources, and executive management. From his early days as an engineer at Boeing to leadership roles at Weyerhaeuser and NAES, Stan reflects on the experiences that transformed his approach to leading people.
The conversation explores the importance of building trust across every level of an organization, connecting with both field and corporate teams, and creating a culture where people can thrive. Stan also shares lessons on navigating career transitions, balancing technical expertise with emotional intelligence, and why effective leadership begins with understanding the people behind the work.
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The opportunity that I've gotten to be able to go from, you know, to the factory floor in the woods, in the operations at NPC has given me the ability to kind of bridge the gap from the field to corporate. That boots on the ground approach, learning the business of where things are actually happening, how things are done is key. And you get the respect from the people in the field, and then you can go to the boardroom to kind of share what's going on, how the company operates, what the culture is, who the people are. And I think that right there is a key piece of leadership as well, is understanding the people across the entire spectrum.
SPEAKER_01The world of energy and the technology shaping it. Powered by Mace.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, man. I appreciate it. I know you've uh tried to drag me in here a couple times.
SPEAKER_01It's well I don't like showcasing very much, but I'm just trying not to screw it up because you are my boss. And uh, you know, so at the end of the day, I trying to come prepared.
SPEAKER_02Nah, man, I work for you guys. That's that's the way it is.
SPEAKER_01You know, we always start with uh just a little history. What ended up bringing you to NACE and kind of what was your career up to this point?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's a great question, right? So, I mean, I've had kind of a, I will say a diverse career. Um out of college, I started at Boeing um as an industrial engineer and spent uh three years doing that in the operations of 737, 757 at the time. Um from there, you know, I had some great uh leaders take me kind of under their wing, uh bring me part of the engineering skill team, which kind of morphed long story into an HR uh background of where it would turn into recruiting, HR management, and so forth.
SPEAKER_01It's kind of a transition from industrial engineer to HR?
SPEAKER_02Total total transition, right? Um and people are like, well, why'd you do that? And I and I think the main reason I did that is because you know, you get so much different experience. Every day is different, right? Um the one thing that uh from an industrial engineering perspective, and even though that three-year period I worked from wing spar line all the way to final assembly, um, I loved the operations, but it was kind of the same thing every day. Yeah. And when you're dealing with HR or you're dealing with varied operations, it's different, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, people can make mistakes in all sorts of ways.
SPEAKER_02Well man, and and that's the that's the beauty of it, right? I mean, every day is different, so you're challenged, right? And it kind of feeds my uh, you know, I'm I'm kind of a wound up person anyway, so it kind of feeds that that perspective of me wanting something different or moving fast or being able to pivot or maneuver.
SPEAKER_01So you're a face-to-face guy.
SPEAKER_02I am a face-to-face guy. Um I'd rather be face-to-face or in the operations or um, you know, on a job site than on a Teams meeting or dealing with email. Um I'd much rather be on the phone than an email, right? So I just think uh psychology and the relationships with people is is where really where the rubber meets the road.
SPEAKER_01How does uh Boeing compare to NACE? Oh geez, man.
SPEAKER_02I mean, Boeing's a killer company, right? Yeah, um, and all of us are are aware of that, right? Uh it's so big though. It's so big, and there's microcultures within it. Right. From an engineering and technology bar none, it's probably one of the best companies, right? Yeah. Uh I mean it's amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, only one of its kind, really. It's one of its kind, yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's cool that it's up here. And yeah. You had mentioned uh it's a little different depending on where you're at. There's microcultures, and I think in a way, a lot of companies are like that. It kind of depends on who who the leader is. It kind of trickles down from that.
SPEAKER_02It does, yeah. Um, you know, yes and no in some aspects, right? It's microcultures, but I think you know, smaller companies, you're able to control that culture a little more, and that culture comes from the top. Um, and you can kind of drive that. What kind of culture do you want, right? And that in from a leadership perspective, who you hire drives that culture as well. If you want an inclusive, um, you know, highly emotional, intelligent culture, I think that you kind of hire for that, right? And there's some companies that hire different DNA and they don't want that culture, and that's okay. It's kind of the business that they're that they're making. And that's you'll find those different cultures in Boeing that way of whether you're in the defense side, when you're in commercial airplanes, or even the sales and marketing in you know, smaller subsets, you'll just see different parts of that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. At NACE, what I mean, what kind of person do you think succeeds here as opposed to other places?
SPEAKER_02That's a great question. And I will tell you the biggest thing that I've seen from NACE is you have to be open to change. You have to be able to maneuver and pivot quickly. Yeah. Um you have to be very open.
SPEAKER_01We're kind of surprisingly scrappy in ways.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I love it, man. That's the that's one of the best things about this company is and we are scrappy, we maneuver quick. Um, and I think that's what makes us uh you know uh dominant in the industry from our competitors. Um our greatest strength sometimes is our weakness too, is because we say yes, right? Um that's the big difference. And it's frustrating.
SPEAKER_01Sometimes uh those jobs are hard.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it's tough, right? And even, you know, from my the HR side of my job is we're really good at saying yes, we're not good at saying no, which makes us great business partners. Yeah. Um, and that's why the clients like us. They they know they come to us, we can solve the problems, we can maneuver, we can bring them on board, we can move quick.
SPEAKER_01The clients only call. Clients only call.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's been interesting for me kind of having uh this team and and developing my own style of leadership as well. I mean, how would you describe your style? I'm an unconventional leader, right?
SPEAKER_02I I really am, and and you know that, Josh, because you know you report to me directly, but um I'll start with leadership quality, right? And I think you know the greatest quality a leader can have is humility, right? Um I'm also a true believer of never forget where you came from, right? Um and I think that with those two things, humility and never forgetting where you came from, and then when you hire the right team, you don't have to manage them at all. You steer them, you remove barriers for for them, you know what I mean? But ultimately that leadership, those people bring you up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's interesting because sometimes it's like to you gotta do less to do more. 100%. You know, and it's like, well, I gotta 40, you know, gotta put in this these hours, but these guys are just cruising right now. I don't want to get in their way. That's right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, do you find some people struggle with that concept?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, you know, and as you know, I mean, I've got all kinds of different people on my team from HR, um, you know, Dana's power contractors to ETFs. To marketing, communications and marketing facilities, right? Payroll. I mean, there's all different breeds of people in there. And marketing's your favorite. Well, yeah, of course, man. I mean, you guys are gonna make this look good. So I gotta No, I you know, honestly, I have favorite teams in different ways, right? Um I love being in the boilers with NPC and just the grit, right? I mean, it's just it's an amazing piece of kind of almost stepping back in time, the stuff that these people are doing and how they're operating, right? Um sales and marketing, right? I love that you know Patrick's flying a drone and the technology piece of this, it's just it's killer, right? And then HR, right? They're able to pivot, they move quick, they read people. Um, I have an amazing team in HR. Um payroll. Listen, people forget they get paid every other Friday, right? And there's a lot that goes into that. That is a keep the lights on and they keep the lights on, that's a very key team. Um, very thankless job, right? But you you walk over there and see those people and they're heads down. I mean, it's it's super dialed in. Yeah. Um, and you know, you don't forget facilities either, you know. Of course. Making things when it's hot outside, it's cool in here.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. So yeah, I've I've made a I've tried to uh you know, the facilities guy, you want to be friends with him. You do, you know, because he can always help you out in a pinch. Yep. So uh, you know, me and Wayne are we have a good good relationship. Yep. With some of these teams, I just wonder, is it difficult managing more of a technical team? I mean, can't be an expert at everything, but what's that like? That a lot of trust goes into those leaders within those groups.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, definitely. Um, and by far I am not the smartest guy, right? So I I rely on my teams and I r ask a lot of questions and I ask for forgiveness. I really do. I surround myself with the best, smartest people possible. Um if I have if I have built trust with them and credibility, uh I just I ask the questions and and I learn as much as I can. But ultimately, yeah um it's them. It's not me, right? I just try to steer this in the right direction. I try to set the expectation that comes from the shareholder to the CEO and drive those results and share that with the team.
SPEAKER_01And I think those types of questions offer a certain vulnerability because I I think people a lot of times are scared to kind of show their hand. And it's like when you're the leader at the end of the day, you have to say, look, you gotta make this make sense to me. Yep. And uh you know that what my limitation is here, so say it in you know, layman's terms at this point, and let's make a decision. Yeah, definitely. I find a lot of times decisions can be made much more quickly than they they often are. Do you I I find with your style it's it's like just give me a bullet point, the facts, um, maybe your recommendation, and then let's go from there.
SPEAKER_02That's exactly how I do it, Josh. You hit the nail on the head, right? Um I do do that. I I just it I feel bad in some aspects because the job that I have and the size, the role, I don't have a lot of time, right? So I just need the high points. Tell me what's going on, right? Where are we at? Um, what do we need to solve for? The one key thing I think anybody that's worked for me a while, I'm like, bring me a solution. Bring me the solution and then let's determine, right? Because if this sounds, you know, this sounds a little harsh, but if I have to solve for it, why why do I need you, right? Yeah, exactly. Let's solve together. Yeah. I think that's that's a key piece.
SPEAKER_01Something I struggled a little bit earlier in my career, and I think it's kind of the natural path, is saying yes to everything. And um, sometimes sometimes you actually just have to set expectations like hey, this is impossible, or you know, I can do my best to meet this, but here's what it's gonna cost to get there. Um how do you kind of train that transparency or how do you pull that out of people? Because I think it's hard sometimes. You get people that are productive and they want to say yes, and you're like, I don't know if this is gonna come through or not.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I believe in giving a person all the freedom they can or that that they need, right? Um open the track up, let them run down it, but keep them in it. So it's setting that expectation. But a big part of that is trust, right? If you if your employees trust you and know that you're you're thinking best intent for them, they're gonna operate fearlessly. Um mistakes are okay. We we can fix anything that's broken here, bottom line, right? So if they're operating fearlessly and they're maneuvering and they're working that way, I think that's key.
SPEAKER_01How do you respond to mistakes? I mean, they happen, obviously, but uh how do you preserve that trust while you know also making sure that type of thing doesn't happen again in the future? I mean, what's the balance there?
SPEAKER_02Happens all the time, man. So here's the first mistake, not a big deal. Tell me what happened. You know, what's the root cause analysis? How do we fix that? Second time, if it's the same mistake, I'm starting to question like, okay, what happened?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, is it a competence? Yeah, what's going on?
SPEAKER_02Third time, I'm like, okay, now we're starting to look stupid. So we can't now we need to adjust. Now there's a whole different situation if there's three mistakes.
SPEAKER_01Right. So this year you've taken on some new P C and C. What is that? We got a lot of acronyms. Oh man, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So power contracting and consulting, right? So really what that is, is it's NPC, NACE power contractors. That's the union arm of NACE doing uh outage and maintenance work, right? Right. Um E3 engineering consulting. Uh basically that's the smartest engineers in the business solving problems for clients.
SPEAKER_01Your role with them, I mean, what what are you thinking about day-to-day? Obviously, a lot of these are they're they're running themselves, but how much are you steering and how much are you letting them go?
SPEAKER_02Listen, these are the teams, right? Um I'll just I'll start with NPC. With NPC, it's operations, right? So that was kind of a rebuild, um diversification of work, diversification of the team, driving results, setting expectations, maybe starting with a little chaos at first, and then I'll say kind of formalizing and normalizing that. And now uh that business is humming, right? I mean, it is it's on fire, it's working well, we're just getting warmed up. Yeah. But again, I I have a great team that surrounds me in that business, right? I mean, if you look at Steve Cox, Bait Seiko, Shane, it's a killer team, all in all, and they're all working towards the same goal.
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell Is it sometimes just not a forest from the trees thing where it's like you have a team that's as effective as they are? It's not like you taking over has made them take some kind of leap, but it's just making adjustments here. Let's focus here, let's maybe uh let's eliminate this service. Or I mean, what's what's your thought process process when it goes to um I mean PL at the end of the day?
SPEAKER_02I think no matter what you do when you take on a business like that, right, is there's two things that I do personally. Um first, I love the operations piece, right? And and we can go back into more of you know.
SPEAKER_01You know, you're HR, a people guy.
SPEAKER_02HR and a people guy, although, you know, I find myself to be extroverted, but or people find myself to be extroverted, but in reality, Josh, sometimes I'm more introverted. Yeah, I need the time kind of by myself to reflect in process. Yeah. Um, but then I get the energy from the people, right? But there's a balance, you know what I mean? From an NPC perspective or NE3, anytime I've taken on a new business, I do a couple different things. One, I learn the people. What are they doing? Who are they? Um, what do they think is right and wrong about the business? Yeah. Then I do a fit gap analysis. Okay, like what are the fits? What are the gaps here? How are we doing it? Right. And then from there, I work with the team and I build the foundation. What's our vision, mission, and goals? Yeah. And from there I kind of develop, okay, where do we want to go? And we is is key, right? Um, I know what the shareholder expects, I know what the CEO expects, right? But I need to understand what is the team willing? Are they willing to drive? Are they willing to make the sacrifices? What do they want? And is it possible from a market perspective, uh, you know, demand perspective, so forth. And then and we we get off and running. But it takes time. That takes time. Especially in a service industry like NASA Overall, um, if you don't have the work, you're displacing somebody else. You got to get it. And so we focus on at least in NPC, and I would say even NASA Overall is safety's key, it's always number one in quality, right? So anytime I go on a job site for NPC and I'm walking, we mean we were just at we were just at Cole Strip with Talent Energy. Yeah, and then we went to um Yellowstone Project and Billings there. It's we're focused on safety and then it's quality. And then the client knows that. When I meet with the client, I always ask, How are we doing? You feel like things are safe? Or a guy's dialed in? Um, how's our quality of work? Right. And the last thing they said to me was the last person will never be on this side again. You guys will be here all the time. Well, I want to keep that, right?
SPEAKER_01That can go away in an instant. Until a person has a bad experience, sometimes that value isn't always apparent. That's right. Like, yeah, we could get it done ourselves. Yeah, but it's nice not having uh that concern is you know, we have pretty deep bench, pretty talented people. Oh man. A lot of a lot of experts, a lot of, you know, some comes up, we'll probably have somebody that can help.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Especially if you look at, you know, back to E3, brightest engineers in the business. I mean, by far the smartest people I've ever dealt with. I mean, scary. I I can't help them with their jobs at all, right? What I can do is um learn from them, get an understanding of what that really means, how we solve clients' problems, you know, how do we diversify diversify that work, whether it's oil and gas, renewables, battery energy storage, um, transmission, right? I think you cast a wide net and I think you work towards that. But then again, that's where you know clients have a choice. And so what's gonna separate you uh from your competitors?
SPEAKER_01I want to go back to kind of the topic of leadership a little bit. Not necessarily a saying, but I've heard this concept shared that you know an A leader will look for A-level employees and a B level employ employer manager often looks to get away from A-level employees and um maybe out of insecurity. Have you experienced that with some leaders where it's there's a little bit of like, you know, because i in my shoes a lot of times I'm like, look, I I don't, I'm not the video guy, I'm not that, but I want you to fly. I mean, if you're better at your job and you know that leads you upward and onward, like that's great. I'm happy for it.
SPEAKER_02Some leaders, or I'll say some people in general, are afraid that their their job's gonna get taken over by somebody else, right?
SPEAKER_01You're gonna get exposed.
SPEAKER_02You're gonna get exposed. I'm like, that's not how I operate. Yeah, I want the best, I want the smartest. Um I want them to take my job. Matter of fact, you know, anybody that's interviewed with me or people on my team, um my goal is to develop you the best I can, right? I want you to get calls from headhunters, I want you to be recruited. Um, I want you to take my job at some point and do it better, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, I think that's key. I think it's almost a validation as well, because in at a company like NACE, where it is a people company, you gotta hire good people.
SPEAKER_02You have to.
SPEAKER_01Yep. Yep. Do you have uh, you know, in that hiring process, I'm sure you've hosted a lot of interviews and you know, are there any common red flags or green flags that you see in those kind of settings?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, this comes down to the basis, right? If somebody's constantly saying I, I, I, I find that to be a problem, right? There's nothing you do by yourself, yeah. Not in a business. And you can't know everything all the time. Especially not at NACE, man. We're just we have too much going on here. Yeah. So I I hire team players. I want to be a team player. Um, and I try to hire uh different people that know different stuff, right? Because if you ha if you hire everybody the same, well that doesn't get you anywhere.
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah. Sometimes I think you can see a person like this guy's an all-star, you know what I mean? Um, but maybe there's you see a personality conflict or you know, sometimes those types of people can be a little bit edgy. Oh yeah. I mean, how do you balance that? Because you want people that are effective and you want to preserve the culture, and sometimes the preservation comes with somebody that's a little bit of more of a slow mover. Yep. How do you balance that?
SPEAKER_02That's a good question, right? I mean, uh first of all, I think you have to put people in the right role. You know what I mean? And then I think that there's some teaming involved in that as well. So if you understand your team and you understand the people on it, uh you understand how to manage them. Like, for example, how I work with you, Josh, is completely different of how I work with one of the other leaders on my team, right? It wouldn't, it's not the same. So I have to pivot or I have to be a bit of a chameleon to to motivate you or motivate the other person. So I think that's that's a big piece of it, right? Is being able to morph and change a little bit in an aspect of how you deal with each person.
SPEAKER_01And everybody kind of responds differently to motivation. Totally. Yep. Some people it's like they just really like the work and they just, you know. Yep. How have you ever had an experience where you had someone you know they're great, but it's just they they just stop caring, or how do you how do you turn that around?
SPEAKER_02Well, hey man, that's you know, and that can happen to anybody at any time, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean life stuff comes up.
SPEAKER_02Hey, and that that's that's that's very key. Bring up a good point. You never know what's happening behind closed doors. Or what's going on in someone's personal life. So one, you still have to think best intent. Uh two, you have to give people some grace and understanding of, you know, maybe they're having a bad day, maybe they're having a bad week. Yeah. How do you how do you work with that, right? Now, there's sometimes this we're still running a business, and as much grace I would love to give. Yeah, there's a balance. There's a balance, right? So there's times when you just go, hey, we have to agree to disagree. This isn't working. Yeah, this is what I need. In in you know, and that's setting those expectations and having a good plan, um, developing that person, developing that plan. And and typically it ends in a good place of you're either parting ways or they're getting the message that we need these results.
SPEAKER_01If I have, you know, feedback I need to give, I want to give it as soon as I see the thing. Yep. I want to get it out of the way. Yep. Hey, this isn't a big deal. I'm just, this is what I'm seeing. Let's change that, or you know, keep it low stakes. But I can imagine in your role, you have to be the bad guy sometimes. Yeah, oh yeah. What's that responsibility like? I mean, it's um, you know, obviously you're given a lot of rust you like the job, but I'm imagine sometimes there are some not so fun days.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah. I mean, uh that's what keeps me up at night, man. Uh making some of those decisions or reorganizing a team, uh, you know, changing the strategy per se. That's what keeps me up at night. That's wakes me up at two, three in the morning.
SPEAKER_01Um sometimes those people aren't gonna understand.
SPEAKER_02They won't understand. And um there's hurt feelings, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01And everybody's intentions are good. You know, maybe the market changed or Right.
SPEAKER_02And they don't, you know, they don't know what's going on behind the scenes, or you know, when you're trying to think best intent for them, um some of that you can't control, right? So that that's that's a tough part of the job right there. And I can't tell, yeah. I mean, I don't like it all the time, Josh. It it is what it is, you know what I mean. But that because you're affecting somebody's life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's the hard part.
SPEAKER_01I felt that way with with uh, you know, the marketing team is like um bringing like, oh man, you're traveling out here, like you're moving your life, and yeah, I feel that sense of responsibility. Like, I don't want to let you guys down. That's right. Yeah. Like I want to bring you out here and I want it to be what you're expecting, and um, I want you to be able to grow in the ways you anticipated and hoped for. And um it's been great. I mean, from my experience, it it is uh there's that life-giving element to it. Yeah, it's like, hey, it's fun time when when uh yearly raises come around and you know, you kind of celebrate with the team in that way. And oh yeah, uh, that feels good.
SPEAKER_02It does. You know, you know, back to you know, early career days, you know, after Boeing I went to Warehouser. And when I was at Warehouser, uh Forest Products Timberlands, I mean, that's with the loggers in the field. I was, you know, I worked throughout that business quite a bit. The most I ever learned was from the crews in the in the woods, right? You're on a landing, they're running machinery, guys are working saws, you want an honest answer of where you stand, right? They don't care. They're gonna give it to you. Good or bad. Yeah. Um that's when you know, you know, it kind of it puts it in perspective of what these guys are doing every day, how they're doing it, the impact they have on the business. Same thing at NPC. These guys are in the boilers, yeah. They're welding. They're in the trenches, they're in the trenches. Yeah. That's what's making money for the business.
SPEAKER_01Right. Right. And there's that level of respect of your job doesn't exist without what they're doing on the ground.
SPEAKER_02100%. And they do not care about what corporate's doing. Yeah, sure. Right.
SPEAKER_01And whatever newsletter is coming through. They don't care.
SPEAKER_02And and I love that piece of it. Yeah. Um I love the honesty, I love the salt of the earth, I love the grit. Um that's that's for me is where it where it all starts, right there.
SPEAKER_01You know, in World War II, Winston Churchill, he had people reporting to him, kind of say, here's the status of things. And uh he had some level of suspicion that maybe they're not giving him the full story. Maybe they're, you know, skewing it a little bit. And so he had uh agents, you know, to give him a more unbiased report of what's actually happening on the ground. And my understanding is it helped him make decisions that, you know, maybe that was the catalyst of things going the way they did. But I think any great leader, like you said, there's a level of humility where you have to be open to information you don't want to hear. Yeah. And you have to be actually actively seeking it sometimes. How do you foster that? That kind of level of transparency and honesty. Like, I'm gonna tell you the truth, even if it hurts, even if you know, whoever it makes look bad, but because you gotta know.
SPEAKER_02Yep, yeah. Relationships, it's building the trust and credibility with with your team. And that's not just from your leaders, but all the way down. Now, the bigger your team gets, harder it is to do that, right? Absolutely. But you you rely on your leaders that they're going to be honest with you. Now, they that has to go downward though, too. Those leaders have to have their direct reports, right? Right. Um, you know, whether it's you know, director, manager, that that has to permeate through the organization so you know the truth. Now, there's always fear in that aspect, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01But again, people don't want to be thrown under the bus. No, sorry.
SPEAKER_02But but if you have trust and credibility, uh, and it's okay to make a mistake. Sure. But again, back to don't make the same mistake three times. Don't be bonehead. Yeah. Um, I think that that's where, you know, that's really where it comes from is just that trust and credibility. I have to bring it back to you build relationships. And you know, we spend more time with people here at work than we do with people at home. Yeah. I mean, and so it that's where it's like, I I want to have really good relationships. I want to enjoy where I'm at. I want to enjoy the people I work with um and have fun every day, right? You have to have fun doing this too. We spend way too much time here not to have a good time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's true. I think about that like, I hope these guys like being around me, or you know, I I hope I don't uh yeah, you know, they I want to be able to add to their life as well. And and like you said, they're gotta see you eight hours a day. So that's right, yeah. Um I've seen, I don't know if it's maybe it's just movies, but I was born in '93 and it it seems like uh some of the eighties, nineties, some of the workplace, uh I think uh the culture around the manager and and employee has changed a little bit. I remember some of my earliest jobs getting yelled at and kind of but it seems like that kind of stuff is uh it's changed a bit. Do you think that's true?
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, 100%, right? And I and I think it's changed. And I also think that uh you have to work hard to retain employees now. Right? I think standards, right? Oh, yeah, totally, right? I mean, listen, there was times, you know, it was normal for somebody to get a job and they would stay 20 years in that job. Right. You look at resumes now and people are bouncing around. Two or three years, yeah. Yeah, two, three years. I I don't even think you can get good at your job unless you've been there two years. So then you start getting traction, you start getting good at it. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01That's true. You got to build up the systems, maybe get rid of some, and yeah, you're not really the rubber hasn't really met the road until two years in, it seems like I think so.
SPEAKER_02And then and then honestly, you know, and that not not a lot of managers are gonna want to hear this, but I don't think somebody should stay 20 years in their first job either. I don't. I think you should bounce two, three times, not two or three years, but I think you should give, you know, three, four years a job and then move on and bring those best practices to another, you know, another career.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, and then find your niche because you have to get exposed, right? And then I also think that adversity that you encounter at different jobs with different people, that builds character. Totally. And with that character, you become a better manager, you become a better employee, and you being bring better ideas to the table.
SPEAKER_01Definitely. Yeah, I mean, uh I remember taking things too personally earlier in my career and you know, being maybe too vocal about my ideas. And um, you know, the truth is you're working with other people, it's in your best interest for them to like you. And uh it's amazing how much more you get with honey than vinegar.
SPEAKER_02Oh, totally right. I mean, especially I, you know, people laugh at me, you know, and as managing recruiting, I'm like, when you get on the phone with a candidate, smile. Definitely. Because that smile can be felt and heard on the other end of the line. Definitely. Right. And so you you bring positivity. I'm I'm very big on positivity. You have to the glass needs to be half full all the time, right? Negativity gets you nowhere in life. Yeah, you think positive. If you breed negativity or you think negative about your team, yourself, you're already setting up a bad situation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and why would somebody want to work for you?
SPEAKER_02That's right. And your body doesn't know the difference. When you when you talk bad about yourself, you're talking bad about other people, that doesn't do you any good, man. Your body, your body sees it as negativity. You have to focus on the positive.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think I had to get that way. I mean, everybody has difficult family members, but you kind of grow up one day and say, they're trying their best. That's right. They're trying their best. Yeah. They may not see it, maybe they they're lacking some self-awareness or uh they're not open to uh feedback, but you know, at the end of the day, everybody's trying their best. And I think uh oftentimes I mean I've had some managers where it's like, you know, I was a kid, I don't I was still figuring stuff out, and it I think uh rubbed them the wrong way, and it it's like I needed a little more grace, I needed a little more uh hand over the shoulder, your arm over the shoulder. And um you enjoy that ac aspect of it, seeing people kind of, you know, I I've seen junior member on my team grow and I like that. It's like uh maybe not parental, but it's I feel like that mentor-mentee relationship is a special one.
SPEAKER_02Oh, big time. I think, you know, as a leader, that's part of your job.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and some people don't seem to relish that as much as others.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, I think it it varies, right? It varies, but I it it's a key piece, and uh I think that uh you know that goes a long way to being able to do that, right? Now, also from a leadership perspective, though, is you're learning each other, right? And I think, you know, for me, it might take a while for kind of somebody to figure out where I'm coming from because I I have a lot of I'm pretty high energy, right?
SPEAKER_01I mean anybody's juggling a lot.
SPEAKER_02I'm juggling a lot, but I'm high energy anyway. I'm high energy in my personal life, I'm high energy here at work.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, so I'm pretty aggressive, and I expect kind of that aggressive, relentless attack as well in business.
SPEAKER_01It's like how can we let's not say no, let's how can we say yes to how do we say yes? How do we solve for it, right?
SPEAKER_02So it's that again, it's that kind of that aggressive, relentless attack on how do you operate in the business? What's the what are our expectations, what are our goals, how are we gonna make money? Right. Okay, that's that's one piece of the business from an HR perspective. It's how are we gonna solve complex problems? Right. How are we gonna mitigate risk for the company? How are we gonna take care of employees?
SPEAKER_01You know, I think what's trained me better than anything is my mom was a big uh she'd just say no to things, and I'd have to think, how can I work this out until I you know I get what I'm looking for here? It's uh honestly though, I think I've gotten a little scrappy is how how do we okay, this is the budget, but this is the vision. Yeah, let's figure out how do we squeeze it into that. Yeah, I've lived that with you, Josh. You're pretty good at mentoring, you don't really take no for an answer. Yeah. Hey, well, you know, we we uh I don't know. I want to do work that I feel proud of. I think just at a basic level. Um and I want to be around people that feel the same. Yeah. It's like I think there's been a shift so socially that your work doesn't necessarily define you. It's kind of it's what you do, not who you are. But there was that time where I think is, you know, this is who I am, yeah. Um, my occupation. And um, and I think from there we almost went into a phase of uh we're like family here. And now it's like, well, you know, not exactly family. It is a you know, it's a business relationship, and it's you there's a lot to balance there. There isn't uh you gotta at the end of the day, it's like I think what I wish I could have taught my younger self was be really good at setting expectations. If you're saying I'm doing this thing, always sell low and then deliver above and beyond that if you can. Yep. And uh, you know, I think it's uh lip service that I can't that I that bothers me is uh I'm not necessarily always a man of many words, but um, you know, I I think action obviously is it counts a hundred times more than words.
SPEAKER_02Totally agree. And and you know, that's key in the aspect. If I say I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna do it. I'm going to deliver on it. Right. Right. Um, I'm not gonna tell you, I'm not gonna that lip service that you're talking about, I'm not gonna tell you that I can do something if I know that I can't do it. Right. Now I will tell you honestly, okay, I'm gonna take some risks. I don't know where this is gonna end up, but I can't guarantee that. You know what I mean? Um so and and it's the same way with the teams we that I currently have. It's if we say we're gonna do something, we're gonna deliver on it. But I'm not gonna just tell you and give you lip service and tell you what you want to hear. I just will not do that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Sometimes for me it's here's what I think the outcome will be. I don't think it's what you're looking for, but we're gonna do everything we can to get to where you know that's right becomes a possibility. Yep. I imagine a lot of people in your role or similar role may not have that firsthand experience. Has that shaped the way that you lead people?
SPEAKER_02Totally shaped the way I lead people. I I I think that uh that builds everything. Um the opportunity that I've gotten to be able to go from you know, the factory floor um in the woods, in the operations at NPC has given me the ability to kind of bridge the gap from the field to corporate. That boots on the ground approach, learning the business of where things are actually happening, how things are done is key. And you get the respect from the people in the field, and then you can go to the boardroom and kind of share what's going on, how the company operates, what the culture is, who the people are. Um and I think that right there is a key piece of leadership as well, is understanding the people across the entire spectrum. I grew up a little more blue collar, right? So I worked, you know, I I worked some tough jobs on farms, uh, ran machinery, um, did some construction work, ran landscaping crews. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um you know what it's like to be out in the sun. I know what it's like to be in the sun.
SPEAKER_02I I also know and I will say, you know, respect what it feels like going to work every day like that and just getting your butt kicked.
SPEAKER_01I mean, those guys and gals are doing things so we get to enjoy a you know, air conditioned office, and you know, that's that's privilege too.
SPEAKER_02Totally. I mean, and you know, I'll I'll bring it back to the boilermakers at NPC, the men and women that are inside those boilers and you know, confined spaces, welding, and just they're just in it, right? Listen, they have choices too. And uh of course they make good money doing it, but it's dangerous, it's dirty. Yeah. Um while we sit here at corporate in our in our clean offices in the AC on it. Uh you you I just never forget where the money's being made.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And uh I think Nace lives that I you kind of have to. I mean, it's the backbone of the company. That's right. Yeah. Stan, I appreciate all the time. It's been a great conversation, and hopefully we can have you back again.
SPEAKER_02Well, if you'll have me back for sure, you just you know, you make it easy on me, I'll try my best. But uh I'm not very good at this stuff.
SPEAKER_01No, this was great.